Stuff I Never Knew: Mud Tire Mayhem

– Fuller, what went wrong? Looks like six bucks worth of (beep) tire shat on the (beep) floor. I’m gonna have to get another job just to pay for what you dumped all over the floor. Hey guys, Shawn, again, Custom Offsets, Custom Offsets TV on the YouTube. This is gonna be another episode of “Shit I Never Knew”. This is episode, lucky number 13. And this one is definitely
driven by you guys. But, it’s a fun one, because
this is one of those things that we sit around the shop and talk about all the time. If you can imagine, we go
through wheels and tires probably worse than any of you because we have the addiction real bad and that’s usually why
we’ve all ended up here because we’ve just got a passion for wheels and tires. So when it comes to different tires, we have tried it all. We’ve tried to run the
most expensive stuff, because we wanted to be on the ‘Gram. We’ve tried to run the
least expensive stuff, because, to get on the
‘Gram, you also have to have light bars and halo
lights and all that stuff. And then we’ve run the stuff in-between, and sometimes, we’ll even run it. (bell chimes) Fucking Fuller. Your checklist, remember? A pilot with no checklist, crash and burn. So, what we’ve done, is we’ve started by probably buying, we
didn’t have much money when we built the Avalanche, the Custom Offsets Avalanche, so we want the cheapest tires that were on the market at that time, that we knew of, or kind of heard of. And then, we’ve gone to, with CO2, because of the size we wanted on it, it was one of the really
high-end, more expensive tires. And, of course, on all
the different vehicles of the folks that work here and some of the vehicles we have, we’ve run some of the other mud tires. So we’ve gotten to try out a ton of ’em. Some guys were the first ones to put a set of Aturros on, and
they sold those trucks with 35,000 miles on ’em. So we’ve actually gotten to
see them go the distance. CO Avey had this set of Federals on there for, I think, 20,000
miles when we sold ’em to one of our friends
that was running Instagram for quite a long time. And then he ran them
for another, I believe, a year. He put another 15,000 miles on ’em. So we’ve gotten to try
the different stuff out, and that’s what we wanna do. Share back with you what
have we learned so far. So, my special guests
today are the Toyo M/T, I’m gonna call them the M/T, on the introduction I’ll
give you the full name. From now on, it’s gonna
be Toyo M/T, Federal M/T, so on and so forth. So this is the Toyo Open
Country M/T, mud tire. This is the Nitto Trail Grappler M/T. This is the Federal Couragia M/T. And this is the Atturo Trail Blade M/T. And we chose these four fellas because we’ve run ’em,
we sell the absolute most of these four. And they’ve got a lot in
common with each other and I think that’s why they are the most popular tires that we sell. But this is a good taste of everything that we sell the most of. And that we run the most of. So, what I’m gonna try to do is talk about price point, we’ll talk a little bit about warranty, which leads us right
into some of the issues on all four of these guys. And we’ll just keep comparing them and try to answer your questions. If you guys want to leave comments and throw in some more questions, we can come back at this. There’s probably a billion questions, but I wanted to answer
the top three or four that we’ve been getting a ton. So, obviously, the most important thing when you go to buy tires, is gonna be price point, because you’ve also got wheels to consider and suspension and all that. So that’s probably the easiest one to just kick off with. So, if we talk price point, we’re gonna start at the bottom, which is exactly like we did, like I said, when we built the Avalanche. And that’s gonna be your Federal Couragia. The Federal M/T. So, this guy right here. And if you look at him, it’s got a really really
wide tread pattern. It’s got a really really luggy look to it and it’s probably, you know,
it depends on how you judge, but, in my opinion, this is
the most aggressive-looking of the four of ’em. So, it just looks like
something, I used to have the Tyco Bandit back in the 1980s. This is the kind of knobby, crazy tire that used to come on the
old Tyco Bandit race truck. So, I think this is the most aggressive, in-your-face tire, would
be the Federal Couragia. And for a set of four of those shipped, as of right this minute, obviously, pricing is always a variable, 426 for four of ’em on your doorstep. I’m gonna make that less… Around four. Per four. 826 dollars per four. I was getting ahead of myself
with that per four thing. So, it’s 826 per set of four of these and these are all, I’m talking about 33X12.50 R20. So, they’re 33 inches tall. 12 and a half inches wide. And they fit a 20 inch wheel. I’m gonna talk… These are different sizes,
and we’ll get into that. But that’s what all these prices are so that it’s a straight,
heads-up comparison. And then the Atturo M/T, this fella, and you’ll notice that he looks a lot like his friends over here on this side, the Toyo and the Nitto. It’s a very similar tread pattern, they stay pretty consistent
with kind of an elongated side tread, and then up the center they’ve got these hooked lugs and then a super-aggressive sidewall. You’ll see that when you look at sidewall of this guy compared to this guy. This is definitely a
more aggressive sidewall. I’ll leave him there. So that’s the Atturo M/T. And, for all four of those, you’re talking 955 per four. Okay. Now we come over to the other world and you’re gonna see why
we have these two together and then we have these two together. So, I’ll do the front one. This is the Toyo Open Country M/T. That bad boy is coming
in at 1,532 per four. So, huge jump into a different world. Here’s the Nitto Trail Grap. And you can see these fellas side-by-side have super-similar tread. Somewhat similar to that Atturo. So, just, at a glance, if I pull those guys all together
and step out of the way, you can see that there’s
this elongated tread on the side, and there’s this hooked lug in the center. Extremely different from… A little bit shorter, a much shorter, with a cutout, much shorter with a cutout, and then, almost like a C-shaped center, and leaving a line right up the center on this guy, on the Couragia. So those three, I would
call them all cousins as far as tread pattern. And then this guy is kinda like that distant relative that doesn’t
look like his friends. So, the Nitto is gonna come in, again, at that higher price point, of 1520, so 1,520 dollars per four. And those are just our, buy four tires have ’em shipped and lay
’em on your doorstep price. Within lower 48. But, to me, that’s a
good way to compare ’em. So, here’s the obvious separation, right? You can see, in the same exact size, the Federals and the Atturos are gonna run five, almost six hundred less. Right around 550 to 600 less. Almost half the price for a set of Federal Couragias, is a set of Toyo Open Countrys. So, a lot of people come out and say, “Then, why would I ever, ever, “run these two guys? “Is it ’cause they got a better warranty?” Well, we keep looking up the warranty, and, as a warranty stands,
like a mileage warranty, none of these are gonna hold one. They’re all mud tires, they’re all M/Ts. They have no idea what
you’re gonna do with these. If you’re gonna go jumpin’ ditches and you’re gonna go tear ’em up on rocks and stuff like that, they can’t warranty a tread that’s made for off-roading. And I know a lot of you are just gonna hit the mall or go to
the Wal-Mart and meet, or just take ’em up and down the highways, a daily driver. And you’re saying, “Well, then “can I have the mileage warranty?” There’s no way to separate the two and they can’t just
distinguish by the look of your truck whether you’ve been jumpin’ ditches or just
going to the meets. So, for that reason, I believe, and I’m making some of this up, it’s just what I’ve learned
or how I feel about it, they’re not offering a warranty. So, that one’s easy. I would just put a line
through it and say, “There isn’t a warranty.” And we’ve already covered price point. So, why, then, would you pay almost double for the Nittos and Toyos? Let’s talk about some of the issues that we hear, and I’m
gonna debunk some of them and then I’m going to
support some of the others. So, one of the ones I always hear is, “I got these new mud tires and they’re “throwing rocks over the side of my truck. “This tire’s junk.” Well, you got 12 wides or 14 wides, they’re sticking four,
five, six, seven inches outside your fenders, they’re
all gonna throw rocks. Everyone single one of these
is gonna pick up gravel and it’s gonna fire it up
the side of your truck. So, that’s on you. Keep it inside the
wheel wells if you don’t want your paint nicked up. Otherwise, just accept it as part of the beast. However, the Federal Couragia, if you look at how wide the tread is… I can use this marker a little bit to give you an idea. This thing could pick up markers and throw ’em at the side of your truck. If you look at some of these other ones, it’s a tighter squeeze,
especially in here, you can barely get the end of that marker in there. I don’t know if you can
see that okay, Fuller? I’ll see how far out I can go. It’s a tighter fit in-between the lugs. This guy, you’re gonna fit it all day. I mean, and here is a massive spot. So, obviously, it’s gonna throw golf ball-sized rocks could fit in there. Have I noticed that personally? I don’t think so. I think because most of
what you’re driving on is gonna be standard-sized gravel, and it’s gonna get into both of ’em. So, when guys say these
throw bigger rocks, sure, I guess I could believe that. I have not witnessed it. So, that argument, I’d say, is kind of a half-truth. And if you live on a gravel road, you shouldn’t buy mud tires, or you should just accept the fact that it’s gonna throw ’em. I just accept the fact, because I want that aggressive look. Wearing funny is a big one. So, I don’t like Federal Couragias because mine completely wore out the inside of my tread and this is still, like, brand new. You don’t have a cheap tire issue, you have an alignment issue. Whenever you get new wheels and tires, I would always go get an alignment. You don’t have to, but, to drop the hundred dollars, to save 826 dollars is
the right thing to do. Because what’ll happen
is it’ll literally wear, it’ll cup, it’ll wear uneven and start to howl like crazy. Having alignment and
having a tight front end is gonna make the difference on whether these guys wear right. My experience, we’ve gotten I sold only 17,000 and did another 15, so 32,000 on a set of these,
that were still going, because we rotated every
three to five thousand miles, every single oil change, we rotate. The Atturos, we’ve gotten 35,000 miles and then he sold the truck
just to one of our guys here. Sold the truck at 35,000 miles with a set of Atturos. And he still had, like, 40% tread on it. So, again, rotated every 5,000 miles, and got all the miles in the world. Either one of these coulda
done the 40,000 mile mark without thinking twice. These guys, everybody all over the place will tell you that these
go 40 or 50,000 miles as long as you rotate. So, my thought on wear, these would be the
guarantee, in my opinion, if you’re doing good rotation. These are, I’ll bet ya any money, they’re gonna go the same distance with proper rotation. But, I would bet that
they’re a little softer or there’s just a touch more wear. So, my final answer is I
wouldn’t spend the extra money for wear reasons on those guys. Jump in if I say something wrong, Fuller. So, rotating every 3 to 5,000. Sidewall bulge and or splitting. So, what I have seen, and I saw one Federal do it for sure, is, literally, it looked like a band or a belt broke inside of here, and then they got a big bulge right in the middle of their tread and it was a fairly new tire, but we warrantied it
out and it was covered. So, something like that, belt breakage in the first however months of ownership was covered and we absolutely did cover it and so did Federal. So, we didn’t have an issue there. These guys, I don’t know
of any that’s happened. And Atturo, I think the only one I’ve heard of is, a couple guys have had where the tread or the
lugs seams start to crack or separate. And it was the same thing. If it’s within the right timeframe, I wanna say it’s a year but
I don’t know that for sure, don’t quote me on that, you can ask the question
and we’ll look it up and get back to you, but if it doesn’t make any sense and it’s not typical, it’s usually gonna be covered by warranty if it’s a pretty new tire. So, do you have, have we seen more issues with either
bulging or tread separation or cracking in these two versus those two? From my experience, yes. So, if you want the insurance plan on bulging and any kind of separating, I would lean towards
the Nittos and the Toyos and that’s why you’re paying
twice as much for ’em. The next one is gonna be vibration. So we’ll take a ride a little bit later, and we’re gonna show you what mud tires do versus stock tires, because a lot of guys will buy a vehicle, take it down the road, and say, “My tires are junk because I can feel “every crack in the road.” Welcome to mud tires. That’s how it’s gonna be and we’ll take a ride in the Hummer and kinda show you what the tires are like on that thing. So, you’ll get the
normal mud tire vibration outta all four of these guys. With this one, we have seen a little bit of balancing issue, but not much. What it is is the tire is out of round. So, on a machine, when we ship ’em to you, it’ll tell us it’s balanced, and technically it is, but when you put it on the vehicle and put some weight down there, because the tire’s out of round or some “Bill Nye the Science Guy” reason, the tire does vibrate and shake at certain speeds when it’s under load or at certain speeds. These guys, we’ve run into the same thing. So we’ve had more come back or have to be sent back or warrantied or hassle related to it balanced out just fine on the machine, we sent it out, the customer put it on the truck, when they get to 65,
to 70, or 72.5 to 76.5, the thing’s got a vibration at that speed. So, I’ve seen that more with the Atturos, or heard it more. I don’t have any Pareto
charts to prove it, but I’ve seen it more here, I don’t see it as much here. If you have a good alignment, if you’re doing good rotation, we have not seen the out of round, and the balancing issues as far as vibration in the truck
when you go down the road with these two guys. So, again, that would be another one that I would say, “Sure.” So, let me write those two down. Just so that Fuller’s got the snapshot. When it comes to issues, I would say tread and belt issues early. So, early on in the life of the tire, would be one that we’ve seen. And, when you go with these two, that’s where you see that issue. And then what was the other one
I just said, Fuller? Vibration. Vibration out of round. The second issue. So, you could say, “But, Shawn, these guys will cover it “under warranty, so I’m still “gonna take the risk.” And I’ll say, “But, yes. “What can happen sometimes is “if your local shop says that this “thing is out of round and it’s vibrating, “it’s a bad tire, we have to figure out “is it a bad wheel, is it a bad tire, “so you’re going back and forth, “you may have to do some
road force balancing “to figure out where
it’s actually happening “if it’s really just the
wheel or just the tire, “sometimes you gotta peel ’em apart.” Sometimes we have to have you
send the entire tire to us so that we can test it
out and get it to Atturo and they can test it out. And the whole process of figuring that out can be really stressful
and take a bunch of time. A lot of times, we’ll take the risk, but the problem is you’ll
ultimately be on the hook if it all comes back that it’s fine and it’s something with your vehicle. Because you have to consider
that if this is a good product, and it’s been shipped all the way back and said to be bad and
it’s found out to be good, that somebody’s gotta
be on the hook for that, if it was your truck causing the issue. So, is it covered? Usually, yep. Is it a huge hassle? Absolutely. So, that’s where I’m
starting to hear guys say, “I saved 700 dollars and
went with these guys, “but I had a bulge issue
and had to go through “their warranty process and it was a pain “in the ass for three weeks or whatever “to get Federal to back it up.” Which, they typically will. But, it’s time to go and
get the new tire put on. The time of shipping and all of that. These guys, I haven’t seen that. So, a lot of times what I’ll tell people, I don’t wanna summarize yet, Fuller, but I keep wanting to. Let me just make sure I got everything. Miles and longevity, went through that. Oh, sizing. So, something that we’ve noticed, and we didn’t even catch it at first until we started running ’em on our trucks and people were asking
what size they were. If I look at this Toyo, right? If I look at Mr. Toyo, and I measure from where the sidewall meets the tread, to where the sidewall meets the tread, this is a 12 and a half wide. And if I just dump a tape on there, and kinda get an eyeball measurement, it’s about 12 and a half from that seam to that seam. If I do the exact same thing on the Atturo and go from the same seam and the same seam, this one measures right around 12 and three-quarter. Here’s the problem, that’s a 12 and a half wide, this is a 13 and a half wide. So, this should be an inch wider and it’s only about, a quarter-inch? Is that what I just said? Yeah, quarter of an inch
to half an inch wider. Obviously, using a metal tape on around its surface isn’t kosher. So, it’s about a half-inch. That’s 12 and a quarter and this is 12 and three-quarters. So, it’s running about a half-inch narrow. And you’ll hear people
with Atturo say that, that once they see ’em on the wheels, they feel like they run narrow. That half-inch is the difference when you have this 12 and a half mounted on this 12 wide wheel. See how this sidewall’s perfectly straight up and down in this side tread? Kinda popped out, past the wheel? On an Atturo, same size, you’re gonna see that start to bend in. And the reason is, you’re missing about a quarter of an
inch, and a quarter-inch, and it starts to pull
it in on the sidewalls and that’s what gives
you that narrow look. And when I put my 12 and a half wides on my 12 wides on CO2 on
a Custom Offsets build, the big white truck, we had the same thing. We instantly could see the slightly narrow of the Atturo. So, if that narrowness drives you nuts, that is another reason we’ve seen people spend the extra money. Let me talk about it in general, and then we’ll go take a ride. So, you could get these fellas for 826 to 955. Or you could get these fellas for about 1500 bucks. People keep asking me, “Shawn, “which ones should I get?” Let me put it to you this way, if you live on the edge, you don’t mind taking
a little bit of gamble and you wanna save that 7, 800 dollars to maybe end up getting wheels, to maybe pay for most of your lift kit, to maybe also mean you get light bars or a custom headlight build, you should buy these. That’s exactly what we did, that’s what we do today. We still run these on our Avalanche, we still have these on quite a few of our trucks. We just recently switched over. Ran these on CO2, pulling
a 12,000 pound trailer all over the country, they ran great, no issues, no vibrations,
no separation, no nothing. Sold them to my buddy, Steven. He paid a fortune for ’em because they were still worth a fortune even with 15,000 miles on ’em because they held up just fine. So, if you want more out of your build, get these, because then you can buy more stuff. If money is not an issue, I would always buy one of these two. Which one of these two? Whichever one you want. Whichever one’s in stock. That’s how I feel about Nittos and Toyos, whichever one is currently available, that’s the one I buy. I don’t have a preference between the two, I’ve run both of them. Same thing here. If I want a really aggressive look, I go here. If I want a more typical look, this looks like these guys, so I’ll run this if I’m trying
to look like these guys. If I’m trying to look like an RC Bandit from back in the day and be that badass with those crazy, aggressive tires, then I’ll run a Couragia. So, should you buy these or those? You have to decide that yourself. Are you trying to save 6, 700 bucks, but willing to gamble that you might have some issues with either vibration that you could just ignore, or if you had a warranty issue then you have to deal with it. Here’s the thing that
people don’t realize. You could buy these, have one
tire completely go to hell, and you could buy a new
tire for about 200 bucks, and still have saved 5 or 600 dollars. So, when I really get confused, is when you save the money and do this, but then you get super-mad that it takes three weeks to deal with the warranty issue. You’ve saved so much money, just buy an extra one and then turn it into a spare. Or buy an extra one and then sell it on Craigslist when the new one comes in. Or buy an extra one and
just keep it in your room because it’ll look sweet
next to your bunk-beds. My point is, if you wanna
save the money, do it. But know that there’s some risk involved. If you have the money and you wanna be on the ‘Gram, and you
wanna have the hottest, newest, best tires on the market, then I think you’ve gotta
go with these two guys. And, like I said, when
I put ’em side-by-side, they’re a horse a piece. You can see you’ve got a luggier sidewall on this guy. You can see it’s a little cleaner, less aggressive sidewall on this guy. The tread patterns are
in the same ballpark. They both look tough as hell on a truck. And they’re all pretty much offered in the same sizes. Fuller, to answer your question, should we go for a ride? So that is, in general, the comparison of the four. The next thing that we wanna talk about is a lot of guys are buying these, throwing them on their truck, and they’re saying, “My Couragias are junk “because I can feel ’em
underneath the truck.” Guess what, that’s a mud tire. All of these are gonna feel that way. So, we’re gonna take a quick ride and just kinda show you what it’s like to ride on a mud tire. ‘Cause some people are buying mud tires for their first time, and they don’t realize
that you’re gonna hear ’em. They don’t realize that
you’re gonna feel ’em. They don’t realize that it’ll
be in the steering wheel and it’ll actually be in
the steering and braking. So, we’re just gonna take a run and we’ll talk through
that as we take a ride in the Hummer. Okay, guys, like I said, we’ll take a ride in the Hummer. What I wanted to show you was these are the stock wheels and pretty much stock-sized tires, the width on those, or the contact patch, I should call it, is about 11 inches. These mud tires are only about 12 inches. So, you’re only talking an extra inch of contact patch from
those 8 inch wide stock or to these 14 wides, but I wanna show you the impact that it’ll have on the driving. Let’s go. So, like I was saying
when we got in the Hummer, it came with stock-sized wheels and tires. But we wanted a leveling kit on the front, which is just leveling
keys to bring up the front, like, two inches. And we put the 14 wides with, like, 35X13s, it’s a metric size but it works out to be about 35X13s. The minute I drove it, I was just reminded and amazed at how much
you can feel the lugs in the actual tires. And if you look really closely, Fuller, I dunno if you’re gonna
be able to pick it up on camera, but my whole steering wheel, I’ll exaggerate it, is
constantly doing this and what it is is it’s
the lugs on those tires feelings all of the grooves and imperfections in the road. So, it’s instantaneous that you feel that ride quality change, and I don’t mind it whatsoever because I want the look
of those mud tires, but some people are like, “There’s something wrong with my tires. “They must not be balanced right.” No, you went from a highway tire to a big, grippy, mud
tire that’s bouncing off of the cold pavement. So, the other thing that I noticed and you’ll see it at this intersection, is when the road gets all
uneven like this up here, when I hit the brakes, those tires grab and
the thing just pulls us over half a car-length. Look at this steering
wheel, it’s turning itself. Because they’re so wide, they, literally, grab every imperfection in the road and every dip and bend. So, you always see people test out their alignments by letting go
of the steering wheel. If you do that with this thing, today, it’s gonna pull to the right, hard. It’d just pull us completely off the road. Tomorrow, if I’m on a country road that doesn’t crown at the center, it’s gonna pull me into oncoming traffic and then, by pure luck, sometimes, it’ll go straight down the road and actually run in a straight line. And the reason is, you went from this wide rolling down to this wide rolling down, but with those mud tires, they’re just grabbing everything and they just pull it
all up and down the road. And I think that’s an important point for people to realize,
because you have to understand the difference when you go to drive it so that you don’t think you got a bad set of tires. That’s just mud tires. That’s a mud life. Mud life. Oh, and if you’re thinking about getting one of them intakes with the hole in it so it whistles every
time go driving, don’t. That’s annoying. Fuller, we almost hit that car. But we’re a Hummer. Okay, let’s get this thing up to 70 and see if you can hear ’em howl at all. So if you hear that howl right now, that is your typical mud tire howl. (imitates tire howl) It’s not bad, but if you’re not rotating, it’ll get louder and louder
and louder and louder and pretty soon you’ll
have to yell at the person next to you ’cause you
can’t hear a gah damn thing. So, I realize that I spent more time on the Federal Couragias and the Atturo Trail Blade and the reason is that’s what most people are buying right now and the ones with the question of, “Should I have bought
the Nittos and Toyos?” That’s the question I was answering. But, I can tell you that,
if you’ve got the money, if it’s not a financial decision, you’re just gonna get more
out of the Nitto and Toyo. You’re gonna have less risk of an issue. You’re gonna get a tire
that just looks mean and runs true to size and it just has that look and feel. And, in my opinion, I’m running ’em on a lot of my vehicles, so, obviously, I think that they’re worth the money. If you’re not in that position, go for those Couragias. Go for those Trail Blades. They’re definitely worth it. You get what you pay for when it comes to tires for sure. Especially in the M/T world. So, that’s pretty much it
for our mud tire mania. Next up, we’re gonna do hybrids. So we’re gonna bring you the Toyo RTs, the Ridge Grappler, the XT, and, I think there’s one more out there we’ve been seeing a whole bunch of and that’s, basically, a mud tire meets a highway tire and it goes right in-between there and you end up with a mileage warranty and still a badass, aggressive look. Keep up with us, make
sure you subscribe to us. Make sure you share. Let us know your feedback. We know this one was a lot longer than we’ve ever done before, but I wanna keep trying different formats and giving you guys
different stuff to taste and let us know what you like. I know that you really loved
the juniors spotlight video which we did totally different, spent a lot more time on, and
a lot more time producing. Again, on this one, give us feedback. Let us know if you wanna see half of all the “Shit I Never Knew”. And if it helps out. Peace.

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