Common Myths: Tires, Foot-Out-Forward, Standing

Common Myths: Tires, Foot-Out-Forward, Standing


yeah they used to call it a JUMPoline
till your mama got on it here hanging out going for a ride the sun’s starting
to come out thought we’d go through some of our top myths and misinformation or
ideas that riders brings to us when we do training so Paul what topic should we
kick off with well I think one of the biggest ones is tires that’s the one
that seems to have the most misconceptions about it you know what
that you gotta have nabis or you gotta air down k6 these are gk c 80s whatever
else and then they ask us you know what how come I’m not getting the mileage out
of them it cuz it’s a knobby and when you write them on pavement they melt
when it’s muddy and Sandy and nasty I mean they do make a difference the only
time that I found that I really need them is when it’s when it’s wet or when
it’s muddy well I’d say the secret for riders that the advice I give them is be
realistic about what you’re doing to where you’re going you know if you’re
gonna be in mind and doing crazy stuff then absolutely tires are gonna make a
difference but you know most adventure riding is pavement and hard pack gravel
so if you’re gonna just be on pavement and hardback rattle stick to a tire
that’s good for that a 50/50 or even most the time in ninety ten I mean I
know you and I both done the entire Washington BTR on street basically
Street tires yeah how the Aniki threes which are the stock tires for the 1200
GS now so what about Aaron down Paul it seems
to be very common as soon as we’re getting ready to leave pavement we start
getting questions do we need to stop an air down our tires well if you air down
on the every time you get to the dirt you know are you gonna air back up every
time you get to the pavement because if you don’t you’re gonna wear your tires
out a lot faster most people don’t have any idea how much off-road bikes
actually are down so you’re coming in on an adventure bike in your 36 to 40
pounds and your tires for the street and they don’t realize when you’re out in
the dirt a bike with 15 psi on a dirt bike is cranked all the way to the max
Amini it’s 8 to 15 psi if you wear down an adventure bike to 8 to 15 psi you’re
getting to pinching the tires bending your rims and causing all cut
plus these big bikes don’t have tire locks you don’t have wheel locks right
spin with all this horsepower you spin the back tire right off the rim
yep or braking hard with all this weight you spin the front now there are some
times I know like when I’m airing up or you’re down there are some times but
ironically for these big bikes things are kind of backwards because when I
want to have air in my tires but I’m going like over those really sharp edge
rocks so I can protect the rim but yet that’s also the time I want to have no
more flex around the tire to go around it you know I tell ya if you want to air
down you know if it makes you more comfortable then by all means do it but
I start with you know 10% you know so if you’re running 40 psi on the street you
know maybe you dropped four pounds out of it go down to 36 psi or something
like that just to you know because otherwise if you dropped down to 20 you
don’t know how the bikes gonna act you don’t know you know what kind of damage
you may end up doing Aaron down that low well and the tires make a difference you
know hide nails or you know everybody that seems to be a really comment are
still but those sidewalls of those Eastern European bloc old you know post
Soviet bloc countries I mean those things are like iron so you can air
those way down to get grip but you got a chi kcat and Eric down the same number
you’re asking for trouble when we were you know doing leg two of the BTR over
the rocky areas I would air down quite a bit just to absorb some of that you know
kind of get the tire to bend around the rocks a little bit so it wasn’t quite so
bouncy but uh yeah even then you know it still wasn’t down below twenty five but
that was only with the high now if I try that with any other tire I don’t know if
I’d have the same results so here’s here’s my advice for riders start with
the factory recommended pressures from the tire manufacturer for that tire on
that motorcycle and then start by just trying ten percent higher low above that
depending what you want to get out of the tire don’t go crazy and certainly
the the other thing that I found is when we do training the smoother you can ride
a line the less impact you have on things the more you can air things down
safely without causing damage the biker rim so certainly you know polishing
skills and becoming much smoother about the road makes a huge difference but
don’t go crazy on the air find a comfortable pressure that works both on
and off road and find an adventure pressure and stick with that all right I get to pick the next one
Paul okay throw in Oleg I mean don’t really you gotta throw rank on an
adventure bike especially with these 1200 GS is they have these mounted
cylinder heads stick it out again either these these 48 litre boxes on the back –
yeah it’s crazy well not oh yeah be good what you want
to do it even dirt guys do the same thing and watch the throw leg and they
don’t throw it like they drop the leg they like put it down below them as if
they’re gonna stop there’s 800 pounds from tipping over and as soon as your
foot hits the ground and gets ripped out behind you anyways it’s like how
ridiculous yep and it’s it’s one thing if you if you know what you’re doing if
you’re gonna put a leg out and why you’re doing it most of us put a leg out
because we think it’s gonna break our fall and all its gonna do is break your
leg yeah I think this goes back to people not understanding where that
comes from and if you watch motocross racers they put a leg out but they throw
that leg straight out in front of them maybe that that ankle is over the front
axle and those bikes are leaned over so far they’re actually dragging their
heels on the ground with that front knee on that foot he’s sticking straight out
in front of them I mean it’s like it’s way way way way out there and yet they
think they’re gonna do that on an adventure bike give me a break they
think that dirtbike guys put that leg out there to brace themselves in the
corner and what they don’t realize is what they’re doing is throwing that leg
forward to get more weight on the front tire to increase their traction I’ve got
one simple piece of advice for anybody that’s ever heard
to throw a leg or put a leg out on a big adventure bike don’t do it
I can turn we get riders to come out and you know like every new rider you start
by emulating what you see you copy that’s that’s reasonable we all do that
but you come out you stand up because you see everybody else stand up but you
have no idea why you’re doing it and then they’re told oh well you lower
center gravity and other people say well no you’re gonna make it worse and
something you’re less balanced and it’s that whole myth about standing and when
to stand on the motorcycle if you’re just standing up because you see
everybody else standing up you’re missing the whole point that you know
the idea of standing up as a few different purposes but one of them is
just vision you know you get yourself hired up out of the seat so you can see
better well and I think that’s the one thing that you can say standing will
always give you I mean of all the other other’s ideas about lowering or raising
center gravity or making the bike more nimble underneath you or whatever it is
vision is the one positive that always comes out of standing change your
vantage point you get higher up you can see farther down the trail when I was
riding in in Africa with Miguel we ended up on these this nasty back Highway and
of course the highways there well it’s a relative term so it’s as paved roads
with these potholes it looks like somebody’s been fired mortars into the
road and for me I didn’t need to stand up for traction I stood up so I could
get shadow on these holes so I could see where they were so I could avoid them
because if I dropped into the holes I was sure don’t yell pinched a tire
been to rim and I’m just puttering through this you know kind of swerving
around this look at my mirror and Miguel’s nowhere to be seen and Miguel’s
got a lot of Maz it dudes been he’s gotten over a hundred countries under
his belt he rides that’s all he does but the only did the difference was I was
standing cup those shadows and I could figure out
what was going on when he had no idea he was right on top of it made a huge
difference you know being able to change your angle and your point of view you
know even if you think you see something stand up for that little bit change your
point of view of it maybe you get a different a different input or different
information that comes to you just from changing your angle a little bit well
the other one that you know is is uncoupling or coupling with the bike
because it’s that whole idea that you lower center gravity and it can be true
but it’s not always true then the difference is how you couple to
the bike if you stand up and you’re walked in and your legs are straight and
if that bike moves up and down and your heads following it moving up and down
you’re not uncoupled you’re all you’ve done is raised the entire center gravity
it’s when you let those knees flex so that bike is moving around it’s like
watching an ostrich run around and they have that head and their whole bodies
moving but the head never moves if that’s the way you ride then you’ve
actually removed your mass your body mass from the equation and made things
much lighter but guys who just stand up and lock into place which is what most
do because they don’t know why they’re doing it that that’s where the the
secret is that a lot of people are picking up on yep I would agree with
that well and it’s a far more complex subject than even just those two but
those are certainly the two that well one that’s a major win and one that’s
kind of the biggest topic but again I’d say you know advice for riders is it yes
standing you need to be able to stand so that becomes your default position so
you are more comfortable standing and sitting on the bike but more than that
you got to know why you’re doing it become comfortable letting that bike
move around underneath it I mentioned it before
but it’s got to be natural for you as a writer

Only registered users can comment.

  1. One more thing about standing up, not only you see better but you are also visible to others! Especially riding in countries or areas that are not used to motorcycles, seeing a big ADv bike with a person standing up, that increases the awareness of other drivers. When i am in traffic in small towns in out of way places, where lets face it, driving is dangerous, i ride with all lights on, (high beams on daylight and i generally avoid riding close or after sunset and before dawn), standing up.

  2. Thank you very much guys… I am slowly saving money to get a 1200gs and going on my own adventures, all this advice helps me out a lot.

  3. Great channel. I'm a new rider and looking into adv in the next few years. Great advise and I'm learning a lot. I will take an adv course that we have up here in Ontario.

  4. Hey. would it be possible to detail your handle bar installation (gps / phone / the diferent mounts you use)? your videos are great. thanks a lot

  5. Good comments on tire pressure. I do find more stability in sand when aired down about 5 pounds or so. Have a small compressor to air back up.

  6. By playing with the real thing of the average stereotyped advrider, you are in more danger than the one that has the true behind JFK. This industry moves gazillion of dollars in farkles, gear and stuff you don't need but makes you look a better globetrotter than Ewan.

  7. Shadow spotting for humps in the bitumen is EXTREMELY important on high speed back road highways. Not for pot holes but for the humps that heavy trucks create on the centre line. For every hole there is a hump. Hit one of these humps at 80 to 100 plus miles an hour (130 to 170 km’s an hour) and you are airborne for 5 metres or more. A very unnerving feeling when not expected. The Bruxner Hwy in Northern NSW Australia is a perfect example. And the reason I went back to ADV’s from Sport Tourers.

  8. great video as always , what do you set up your blogging helmet ( audio ) & ( video ) also I am having a hard time choosing a GPS any subjection that won't brake the bank

  9. I like the myth about an adventure bike has to be a 250 kg, 120 HP behemoth, because a manufacturer paints adventure on the side of the bike.

    An adventure bike is any bike you are riding at the time, the adventure is the ride, really do wish people would stop believing the marketing hype of you need brand X to call yourself an adventure rider.

  10. Loved the videos, continue this avenue of displacing BS and increasing skill. Boobtude is sorely lacking. Great job!!!

  11. I'm still for disabling the ABS at the forward wheel too.
    If you was able to stop your bicycle when you was ten years old then you can do the same with a motorcycle. Otherwise, driving a bike in the european Alps with ABS at the front can turn the ride in a quite interesting experience.

  12. BTW, even people standing up and staying (wrongly) rigid are lowering the total center of gravity. It's a physics law (even if they will crash after few meters 🙂

  13. Hey bret!! I was one of the morrons who droped a leg xD btw, can you show how you mount that gopro facing you?? Is it on the windshield? How is it so stable?? Thank you!!

  14. When I stand up, I mostly do it to stretch my legs for a bit. And it kinda feels good, like you're flying or something. lol

  15. Hi, mate! Thanks for the video and congratulations for the channel.
    That's a puig windshield on the 1200 GSW?

  16. Great videos, enjoy them a lot very informative. The question I’m left with though is that if the majority of riding is done on paved roads and hard packed dirt, and you are suggesting 90/10 tires are fine for most situations and that these big 800 lb + bikes will snap your leg if you attempt to prevent one from falling over, is why are these big adv bikes relevant or useful for the type of riding you describe. There are plenty of smaller displacement, lighter, capable bikes that won’t leave you crippled should it fall on your leg lol … just saying.

  17. I dealt with 8,000 miles of K60 buzz on the road for no real reason – they were better on the gravel roads but I only do that occasionally . I switched back to Tourances and my GS is fun to ride again. Much quieter ride and HUGE difference in turns on pavement.

  18. One of the problems I'm seeing with aggressive knobby tires in Adventure Riding is a complete misconception of how much "mileage" you'll get out of the tire. Guys are basing their mileage on tread depth, and claiming to be getting thousands of miles out of a tire, when in actuality the knobs were rounded off long ago, and their tire no longer has effective grip. Problem can be compounded by guys submitting reviews claiming amazing mileage when in reality they aren't using the tire for its intended purpose (they stick to mostly pavement with an occasional gravel road thrown in every once and a while).

  19. Better not make a drinking game out of these videos or I'll be in real trouble… think I've fallen for most of these so far haha! Thanks for all the info & the entertaining way you deliver it all 🙂

  20. Very informative videos guys, I spent a lot of years racing Enduro so would like to think I have some degree of off-road knowledge but have only just got into riding Adventure bikes and these are a whole new ball game. Thanks for sharing your knowledge

  21. Where are you guys riding in this video? At first I thought it was the Skokomish Valley Rd, but then realized it isn’t. Are you out near Rainier?

  22. Thanks! Please keep with this set of videos! (Sorry for the delay on the like+comment, I was riding around Andalusia 😬)

  23. Very good content, however my riding instructor pointed out that the videos look like your hanging over the yellow line in the turns. In Canada this would be a potential fatality as many trucks and cars hug the yellow line too. They never suggest motorcyclists to hang over the yellow line.

    Also, why do you ride with the neck protector?

  24. VERY GOOD video, with all great points. Hey, y'all are the professionals but just proved a point that I have stuck hard to for many years in reguards to sticking a leg out! hahahaha!
    I stay on the friggn pegs and every time the bike has gone down I have been able to bring my leg up bringing my knee closer to my body and (for the lack of a better term) barrel roll off of the bike when it went down. May or may not be "right", but so far it's allowed me to walk back to the bike, pick it up, and ride on down the trail. Hey, sometimes crashes just happen off road…………with me anyways! hahahaha!

  25. 9:28 If you stand up you ALWAYS raise the center of gravity, those of you that say that you put the weight on the pegs therefore you lower the center of gravity are completely wrong and have no idea about how to calculate the center of gravity, the place where you make contact is irrelevant

  26. I love that we get to hear you inside the helmets talking adds a layer of feeling included in the conversation and intimacy for the video. I feel like I could inject something into the chit chat.

  27. Second year rider here … and these videos are GOLD …….. Really cuts through the BS !Thx!

  28. All motorcycle tires will slip somewhere. Ask yourself based on the hazard assessment below where would you rather that happen.

    Road hazards: high speeds, high lean angles, trucks, cars, slick wet surfaces
    Off road hazard: getting stuck

  29. funny as shit. I stand lots of times cause my ass gets sore and runs out of blood…I love the advice on throwing a leg! Hilarious. I have never had any good come from putting my leg out instinctively. I have this mantra in sand "breathe eyes up, stay on the pegs, breathe eyes up, stay on the pegs"

  30. Good advice guys but this riding on two lane country roads with lots of driveways, crossroads, possible domestic and wikd animals one and no handed made me embarrassed for you. Not safe, not a good example.

  31. I use a TKC80 on the front for better grip in the loose stuff, but an E07 on the rear as a compromise between off-road grip and on-road longevity. A TKC80 rear just doesn't last long enough on the tarmac.

    Foot out? Nah, I'm on a 1,000cc adventure bike, I keep my feet and legs in where they are protected by the crash bars and panniers. My bike weighed 252kg when I bought it, then I added crash bars, panniers and other stuff – I don't want that weight breaking my leg.

    Standing – I stand with straight legs for vision or just to give my butt a break for a couple of minutes. I stand with bent knees for bumpy stuff so that I don't get jarred so much . I also sometimes stand for tricky stuff when I want to more easily move my body weight around. Standing for no reason seems a bit silly, it is always good to know what you are trying to achieve when you do something.

  32. 4:25 I have a question. In the video it is said, that it is the tire pressure from the manufacturer of the tire you must use. I have learned that it is the pressure recommended by the bike manufacturer that is the correct pressure..?
    I mean, one bike can go with many different tires, but has to keep the same pressure as recommended by the manufacturer of the specific bike.. or?
    Thanks for taking your time to make all these informative videos

  33. I often stand on my KLR when on the highway just to get some blood flow back in my a$$ after it goes numb, usually "lock in" when doing it for that reason. On the dirt or in the rough, you're right about keeping things flexible, kind of making yourself an extension of the suspension. Too bad my Harley is not ergonomically convenient for standing up on. I've been riding for more than 49 years now, you're giving some great advise in these videos.

  34. I agree with the three items you brought up. Here I offer three more:

    1) Counter-steering does not work on dirt. My answer: Nope. Counter-steering is the only way a motorcycle turns no matter the speed or the riding conditions.

    2) Peg weighting is necessary to change direction on an adventure bike when riding at normal speeds. My answer: Nope. Pegs offer a lot less leverage than handlebars to lean a bike and hence make direction changes. The only way peg weighting helps is because it induces counter-steering (try it, when you push your right foot down your right arm will push on the handlebars, hence, counter steering… it is just the natural reaction to keep balance while standing for the people who have not developed the purposeful use of counter-steering (everyone counter-steers, but not every one knows they do it and not everyone engages it purposefully.

    3) You have to weigh the front tire for dirt and gravel curves or the bike will wash out (low side). My answer: Nope, quite the opposite, sit down and accelerate as soon as the bike starts the curve (that is, before the apex when on gravel roads). No wonder motocross and flat track riders always sit when on curves and under acceleration… It is not different for an adventure bike, the physics do not change form one to the other. They are still two-wheeled vehicles… The thing is, when one accelerates through a curve the bike will settle its chassis nicely, the rear tire needs traction for this to happen properly, and the front will do less of a steering job, even if you are not sliding the rear out like a maniac (although that is fun…), hence will be less prone to wash out. As a matter of fact, when you are thinking you are going too fast and the bike seems like it is running out of road and going on a tangent to the curve, instead of slowing down, throttle it! The bike will tighten the curve as and be very solid. When in doubt, throttle it!

    Other comments about standing up: Standing up helps a lot when going through very rough terrain, where our knees help soften our weight and we help the bike's suspension go through the terrain, keeping the bike more grounded. It helps for for visibility, like you guys mentioned (I use it a lot when going on up and down roads and I want to know what is behind the next small hill). However, I see people standing up as soon as they hit gravel, and sometimes smooth gravel at that. Which is okay if that does it for the rider, that is, they like riding that way… However, here goes a word of caution for the people who stand up and then hunch forward putting more weight on the handlebars on smooth gravel roads: their rear tires will lose traction… It can be very dangerous, I've seen guys wobble or crash in front of me when doing that on gravel roads.

    Note on the above: I've seen plenty of great riders doing exactly what I explained above, but they do it on purpose because they do want to show off the rear tire spinning. But they do it for TV adds on adventure bikes, for example, they want to show off how the bike can slide the rear… But those guys know what they are doing, they know how to control the slide. But for regular riders, like is my case, watch out… the rear may pass the front on a moment's notice. The proof that this is the case is that stunt riders do exactly that on pavement to have the rear tire spin to a crisp… They stand up, hunch over the handle bars, and go full throttle… If that stand up position helps lose traction of the rear tire on pavement, imagine what it does on gravel… Dangerous unless you know what you're doing, of course!

    Thanks guys.

  35. Very good advice, especially for novice riders. You can never learn too much when your life is on two wheels. Any advice about riding with one hand? No hands?

  36. What are the two black knobs on your bike, MOTOTREK? It was driving my partner crazy trying to figure it out 🤣

  37. Mythts… Just Ride Them! They take you anywhere. This is why I ride an Adventure bike… https://youtu.be/lbbleTtvxbQ?t=26s

  38. Great videos, not just the content but the filmmaking as well. Not sure if it's been said, but the original music really sets the quality much higher. It's great when good content is a pleasure to watch as well!!

  39. Only thing I'd say about standing is yes it gives a better view and don't lock your legs…I agree. But also it's whatever the rider feels most comfortable with too and also what terrain. If you're going through some narrower ruts and you can easily lose your balance, therefore sitting down is sometimes more comfortable and easier to control the bike, but if the bike does begin to drop and you're going slow then sitting and putting your feet down can save the day…but stress only when going slow.
    Also there's a big difference between compacted trail riding and rutted/potholed dirt tracks or riding through forests where there can be a lot of low branches to contend with, so sitting down usually works better.
    But totally agree, the riders need to understand why they're doing it and when it's appropriate but ultimately just do what is most comfortable for them

  40. I have a question: about tires, many manufacturera claim they put out the bike with "mix terrain tires" or "all terrain tires", how much should one belive those claims?

  41. Nice to see somebody dispelling the BS. I hear so much of that rubbish spouted and then you look at the guys bike and he does 500 miles a year !!!

  42. Loved the video – very nice information. Though I have a question, how did you get the voice recorded for both the bikers together. What software did you use? Or what's your setup.

  43. Sorry guys, you are wrong on 2 things: 1st: Moving the leg to the front to ad weight to the front wheel is a essencial riding technique even with Bigger Enduro bikes. Efficient way to add grip to the front wheel. 2nd: Standing position is in many cases standard position. e.g. climbing hills, or fast Rally-Style offroadriding. Maybe you should declare your movie better as "beginners guide". But thanks anyway for making cool movies.

  44. My TOP limit for adventure bikes are 500cc, I’ve been riding since 1962. Had the BMWs KTMs, no thanks. Riding a KLR650 until the 390 duke adv comes out. Don’t want the weight or cost or maintenance on those big pigs. I live in Utah, we have it all here. I’ve ridden all over Utah, Idaho, Wyoming and Montana with no problems at all on a 35hp KLR650.
    You go over 65mph on these back roads and the cops will nail you to a wall.

  45. The number One reason for me to stand up is to let my bum rest from the seat and to get some air into my helmet. This happens a lot on highway rides, since they tend to be lengthy. Vstrom 1000 is comfy, but not like a car.

  46. One thing I never hear mentioned about standing is that it keeps your feet on the pegs. If you're sitting down and the front washes out, or you hit an obstruction, you may suddenly find yourself with only one foot on the pegs. It can be from a bad reflex to take a dab, or you can just get bucked off.
    Center of gravity, as I've heard it described, is fake science.
    I loved your bike lifting video. The kneeling method is a back saver.

  47. There is another reason why people stand up on an adventure bike, they are looking to see where all those sport bikes disappeared too in front of them… (*_*)

  48. Bought my V-Strom with Shinko 805s. They were pretty worn, the rear was pretty much done.
    I figured that I'm not going off road much if ever, as I think a 1000cc bike is too big to be a true dancing partner anyway. So, I put on Conti Road Attack 3s.
    What a difference!! The change was like night and day! It gave me an immediate boost in confidence and just made the bike way more enjoyable with WAY less road noise.
    So, putting on tires that truly reflect what you plan to do with your bike and where you plan to do it will definitely enhance your experience.

  49. If you guys were in Australia you would have tickets already for driving with no hands and foot out of pegs. How good is the USA? ah?

  50. how do you guys stand on the bike while riding offroad without feeling tired?… i got up after just couple of minutes i was exhausted handling the riugh terrains… force me to sit back down… can share some tips on how to be able to stand without getting tired easily?

  51. I've said it before and will continue to say it; your adventure videos are the best on the web! You pass on quality information and true insight! Thank you.

  52. I know why I stand on the pegs that you didn't mention: It often offers better balance when going up steep and rocky slopes. It also helps to keep my legs loose versus sitting for long periods. And, standing on the pegs is enjoyable as it gives the sensation of being disconnected from the bike…after all, I am out riding for the enjoyment of riding.

  53. I understood the example of standing on the pegs for better visibility, but maybe I've been doing it wrong all these years. The reason I get on the pegs beside a better vantage point during a technical stretch off road is to counterbalance. If my bike leans to one side, I can shift my weight to keep the center of gravity in the center. Is this not why most people ride the pegs?

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